From my "Complexities" posting I wanted to flesh out some ideas after observing projects at Wara...on the question:
What motivates community organisations/corporations to engage with school sites and students?
* The novelty factor in marketing - This is based on response "Wow kids did that?" which for organisations or the corporate world can be an appealing angle to work with when promoting a product or service. eg pamphlets for Gracemere Saleyards
* Social conscience - There is probably a better tag or label for this idea but it is based on the fact that community groups and some businesses have an agenda to build or contribute to the social fabric of community and working with youth helps them achieve this.
* Cost factor - Basically having students undertake a project as a learning experience can be a lot cheaper than getting the professionals to do it. Quality control needs to be considered and this opens up ethical questions about paying students or the school. (I think this is pretty much unchartered territory in Qld, but that hasn't stopped us for venturing into the minefield eg Mt Morgan Museum)
* Education agenda - Many community organisations and government departments want to educate young people about their cause. They become pretty willing partners if this is the case. The tough stuff is helping them shift their paradigm around how its done. eg The Commonwealth Games phone call Chris had, highlights just how hard it can be.
* Meets a market niche - Basically this is where the teacher and kids have hit on an idea that is needed in the market place and creatively position themselves to deliver it. eg the potential of the recycling bag stand and wine from Stawell. Still waiting for the sample!!!
Of course in most cases its a combination of the above and there are sure to be motivators that I haven't identified. I guess the intriguing thing from a research perspective would be to get some anecdotal stuff from the horses mouth.
Tuesday, November 30, 2004
Monday, November 29, 2004
Thanks for the good words and ideas Trudy. I stepped from KPS to AARE - not sure we do em cheek to cheek next time but it meant that Bridget, Matthew and Rob could be part of the KPS gig given their participation in AARE. I like the idea of doing some of this intensively online but working out when that might be could be tricky. All we can do is try eh? There is also the option of a virtual conf. with video links. A few options there.
Re membership of this blog. I set it up originally with Trudy, Carmel, Leonie to see how it might be used. I was not going to broadcast it to the list until we'd worked out what was best, if it was worth doing etc. I am very keen to move from single authored spaces, even if the words are coming from others. There are a number of options that might be explored. One is to stay with this one blog and add members who can write to it. There is a limit in size before it is charged I understand. Don't know what it is. The other way to go would be encourage folk to set up their own individual blogs and then respond to each other's blog via links. Something to mull eh?
Re membership of this blog. I set it up originally with Trudy, Carmel, Leonie to see how it might be used. I was not going to broadcast it to the list until we'd worked out what was best, if it was worth doing etc. I am very keen to move from single authored spaces, even if the words are coming from others. There are a number of options that might be explored. One is to stay with this one blog and add members who can write to it. There is a limit in size before it is charged I understand. Don't know what it is. The other way to go would be encourage folk to set up their own individual blogs and then respond to each other's blog via links. Something to mull eh?
Conference follow on
I throughly enjoyed the weekend. Wouldn't it be great if it could be an annual pilgrimage that could grow and allow us to share stories, exchange ideas with fellow schools and add more questions to the reseach. $$ would be the only hurdle. Maybe timed in common school holidays and travellers could organise their itinery to take in the shopping and sites and claim it on tax. I bags going back to Deakin Management Centre. Chris was not wrong when he said it was pretty flashy. A far cry from the student res accom that we were expecting.
There may also be merit in trying to do something like an electronic conference in a defined week where different people are organised to post "stimulus" to a space. We plan in advance so that we schedule time for ourselves on-line during that week. We could then respond digitally. This blogging space may allow us to work in this way. If it worked this sort of thing could happen twice a year. Or do it in one semester and the pilgrimage in the other. Just some ideas.
There may also be merit in trying to do something like an electronic conference in a defined week where different people are organised to post "stimulus" to a space. We plan in advance so that we schedule time for ourselves on-line during that week. We could then respond digitally. This blogging space may allow us to work in this way. If it worked this sort of thing could happen twice a year. Or do it in one semester and the pilgrimage in the other. Just some ideas.
Complexities
After a terrific time at the KPS conference in Geelong over the weekend (Thankyou!) I thought I would act on Chris' encouragement and write in this blog space. I have taken the KPS complexities that I cruised through in the later part of my presentation and have phrased them as questions here. Since I suggested my Executive Director and the meddling academics have "ask hard questions" in their job descriptions I guess the flip side is people in schools like me work on providing the answers. (But also reserve the right to ask them back!) So here goes...
Q. What is the definition of "community"?
Answer for me to date has been an individual or group at school, local or global level. Also has to be beyond the classroom walls and "fridge door".
Q. How do schools identify their community uniqueness, 'point of view' and potential opportunities to build relationships with their community?
Might be useful here to review "point of view". Other than being observent, listening to folk from all sectors, being open minded and capitalising on opportunites I don't have any greater insights. Do others?
Q. Is the KPS agenda easier to establish in rural schools than city, metropolitian or provincial sites?
Now at Allenstown (a large school in Rockhampton, Qld, Aust) I can start to challenge my own beliefs and assumptions behind this one. To this point I would believe that it is infinetly easier. PS I've worked in a rural community in North Qld where "dinosaurs" would be a legitimate learning experience. Marine Fossils sit on the desks of kids in Richmond as paper weights...too bad if they are the missing peice to some rare archelogical find.
Q. What motivates community organisations (read also as 'corporations') to engage with school sites and students?
Being a part of the Waraburra developments I have some observations and ideas on this that would make a good post all on its own. stay tuned.
Q. How do we know (measure) students are developing as Life Long Learners? (In Qld this is defined in terms of characteristics such as Thinking, Understanding, Creating, Investigating, Communicating, Participating, Reflecting) Aside from collecting work samples and anecdotes as evidence, my greatest sense has been we just get them trained by year 7 and then we lose them to the secondary school. The students become essential "workers" within the school who are highly reliable, responsible and effective in carrying a miriad of tasks you may call on them to undertake.
Q. What impact does KPS agenda have on leadership in schools? As Sue Barfood indicated - "flat leadership", even flatter than usual notions of administrators and teachers being partners, students organising events, making authentic decisions and suggestions and creating their own learning experiences is on. Organisational charts and heirarchies are gone.
Q. What do traditional approaches to schooling over a period of time do to students ability to solve authentic problems (and think in reality) OR What does KPS approach over a period of time do to students ability to solve authentic problems (and thinkk in reality)?
This is prompted by Bill's anecdote about kids taking 10-15minutes to realise to film an ad in a bar they could actually go to a bar.
Q. How do we understanding or define “knowledge”?
I stumbled across the ideas of declarative and procedural knowledge from Dimensions of Learning earlier this year, but am interested in what others have to say.
Q. How do we understand or define "knowledge creation" and help teachers understand this concept?
I sometimes have a sense that teachers think I too must be from another planet when I talk about this. (Apparently Chris is an alien life form) Some teachers' understanding comes from the perspective that students can't possibly create knowledge Pythagorus discovered the theory and I teach it. Students can't possibly create it, it's already done.
Following from above.. What do we know about the sophistication of student's knowledge work? Is there a continuum from volunteer labour to knowledge worker? Are they different concepts? Are both roles legitimate?
For me the jury is out on this one..needs more thought, reading and exploration. Its an interesting area. I need to understand earlier issues in more depth before I could call this one.
Q. With KPS, is the finished work product of higher quality and why?
Q. How do schools deal with the "ownership" issue? This goes beyond the copyright and intellectual property discussion towards what happens in a school when the culture is such that students can start a project and it becomes bigger than Ben Hur?
Q. How do we enable (give permission to) teachers to...
- continue working/learning beyond the unit boundaries?
- pursuit tangents that enrich the learning and build on the known?
- ensure the end product is achieved despite time pressures?
Q. How do we enable (give permission to) teachers to
- become experts for specific projects and
- build on them from previous years with new cohorts of students not necessarily starting from the beginning?
The wine making course sheds some light on the first part of this question.
Q. How does creating our own community space (ie history project, museum idea) that is potentially an on going context support teachers who work in this mode?
If we can get this sort of concept up and running I will be very interested to see the impact on teachers professional life and student learning outcomes.
Well there is a start. I look forward to the responses of others.
Take care.
Trudy
Q. What is the definition of "community"?
Answer for me to date has been an individual or group at school, local or global level. Also has to be beyond the classroom walls and "fridge door".
Q. How do schools identify their community uniqueness, 'point of view' and potential opportunities to build relationships with their community?
Might be useful here to review "point of view". Other than being observent, listening to folk from all sectors, being open minded and capitalising on opportunites I don't have any greater insights. Do others?
Q. Is the KPS agenda easier to establish in rural schools than city, metropolitian or provincial sites?
Now at Allenstown (a large school in Rockhampton, Qld, Aust) I can start to challenge my own beliefs and assumptions behind this one. To this point I would believe that it is infinetly easier. PS I've worked in a rural community in North Qld where "dinosaurs" would be a legitimate learning experience. Marine Fossils sit on the desks of kids in Richmond as paper weights...too bad if they are the missing peice to some rare archelogical find.
Q. What motivates community organisations (read also as 'corporations') to engage with school sites and students?
Being a part of the Waraburra developments I have some observations and ideas on this that would make a good post all on its own. stay tuned.
Q. How do we know (measure) students are developing as Life Long Learners? (In Qld this is defined in terms of characteristics such as Thinking, Understanding, Creating, Investigating, Communicating, Participating, Reflecting) Aside from collecting work samples and anecdotes as evidence, my greatest sense has been we just get them trained by year 7 and then we lose them to the secondary school. The students become essential "workers" within the school who are highly reliable, responsible and effective in carrying a miriad of tasks you may call on them to undertake.
Q. What impact does KPS agenda have on leadership in schools? As Sue Barfood indicated - "flat leadership", even flatter than usual notions of administrators and teachers being partners, students organising events, making authentic decisions and suggestions and creating their own learning experiences is on. Organisational charts and heirarchies are gone.
Q. What do traditional approaches to schooling over a period of time do to students ability to solve authentic problems (and think in reality) OR What does KPS approach over a period of time do to students ability to solve authentic problems (and thinkk in reality)?
This is prompted by Bill's anecdote about kids taking 10-15minutes to realise to film an ad in a bar they could actually go to a bar.
Q. How do we understanding or define “knowledge”?
I stumbled across the ideas of declarative and procedural knowledge from Dimensions of Learning earlier this year, but am interested in what others have to say.
Q. How do we understand or define "knowledge creation" and help teachers understand this concept?
I sometimes have a sense that teachers think I too must be from another planet when I talk about this. (Apparently Chris is an alien life form) Some teachers' understanding comes from the perspective that students can't possibly create knowledge Pythagorus discovered the theory and I teach it. Students can't possibly create it, it's already done.
Following from above.. What do we know about the sophistication of student's knowledge work? Is there a continuum from volunteer labour to knowledge worker? Are they different concepts? Are both roles legitimate?
For me the jury is out on this one..needs more thought, reading and exploration. Its an interesting area. I need to understand earlier issues in more depth before I could call this one.
Q. With KPS, is the finished work product of higher quality and why?
Q. How do schools deal with the "ownership" issue? This goes beyond the copyright and intellectual property discussion towards what happens in a school when the culture is such that students can start a project and it becomes bigger than Ben Hur?
Q. How do we enable (give permission to) teachers to...
- continue working/learning beyond the unit boundaries?
- pursuit tangents that enrich the learning and build on the known?
- ensure the end product is achieved despite time pressures?
Q. How do we enable (give permission to) teachers to
- become experts for specific projects and
- build on them from previous years with new cohorts of students not necessarily starting from the beginning?
The wine making course sheds some light on the first part of this question.
Q. How does creating our own community space (ie history project, museum idea) that is potentially an on going context support teachers who work in this mode?
If we can get this sort of concept up and running I will be very interested to see the impact on teachers professional life and student learning outcomes.
Well there is a start. I look forward to the responses of others.
Take care.
Trudy
Tuesday, November 09, 2004
More Gatto
Having revisited John Gatto in the previous post I thought it useful to dig up some of his collected work. Preservenet has a collection of Gatto's work that you can find on the web. There is also Gatto's own page.
Peering across a curriculum gap
I've just spent a few hours in a telephone hook-up brainstorming about a Victorian curriculum project concerned with the Commonwealth Games. I'd been invited along, probably because I had had some conversations with the convenor of the bid about kps-style possibilities. I had a chance to talk about kps and spoke briefly about the main ideas and the kids on outcomes that have been reported from kps schools. I did not imagine that I was going to persuade folk about the merits of kps but thought it might be interesting in terms of having a conversation about what I anticipated would be competing notions of curriculum. What I was not prepared for was the unproblematic way that the exercise unfolded.
There was much discussion about engaging students. There was a lot of discussion about what this group of adults thought was interesting about the Games. There was an unproblematic notion that designing 'engaging' materials was simply a matter of making things engaging. Time and again there were suggestions for students to do pretend tasks in terms of simulations of issues or problems around the Games, of 'looking up' data from websites, of teachers or curriculum designers doing all the interesting work to make it 'engaging' for students. In the end I felt I must have been talking in tongues. Every time I ventured something along kps lines responses ranged from, yes I think we are doing that in the way you are proposing, or teachers would have trouble doing that in a 20 hr timeslot. In the end I was grateful for the experience and time to reflect on the problem. As each gesture was made to the ways teachers speak and think I was reminded of John Gatto's work and the problem of educational mindsets: when all you have is a curriculum framework, everything looks like a categorised outcome, assessment item or content to be designed.
My favourite piece on mindsets is a useful reminder of how fixed either side of this debate can become.
There was much discussion about engaging students. There was a lot of discussion about what this group of adults thought was interesting about the Games. There was an unproblematic notion that designing 'engaging' materials was simply a matter of making things engaging. Time and again there were suggestions for students to do pretend tasks in terms of simulations of issues or problems around the Games, of 'looking up' data from websites, of teachers or curriculum designers doing all the interesting work to make it 'engaging' for students. In the end I felt I must have been talking in tongues. Every time I ventured something along kps lines responses ranged from, yes I think we are doing that in the way you are proposing, or teachers would have trouble doing that in a 20 hr timeslot. In the end I was grateful for the experience and time to reflect on the problem. As each gesture was made to the ways teachers speak and think I was reminded of John Gatto's work and the problem of educational mindsets: when all you have is a curriculum framework, everything looks like a categorised outcome, assessment item or content to be designed.
My favourite piece on mindsets is a useful reminder of how fixed either side of this debate can become.
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